37th Parliament, 2nd Session
(September 30, 2002 -     )

[Parliamentary Coat-of-Arms]

Edited Hansard • Number 064

Thursday, February 20, 2003

[Hansard – Page 3824]

Points of Order

Firearms Program

 

    Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton—Melville, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, in the last two days there have been articles in the newspapers that question the facts as stated in your ruling with respect to the question of privilege by the hon. member for Sarnia--Lambton. The Speaker said, and I would like to quote your words:

 

    Practically speaking, what occurred on December 5, 2002 was that the additional funding being requested for the Canadian firearms program was withdrawn from the package of supplementary estimates that was finally approved. This still left the Canadian firearms program with the original $113.5 million authorized by the House last June in the main estimates. That may not have been what some hon. members understood to be the case, but that is exactly what happened.

    Officials from the justice department and the Treasury Board told the media that this was factually incorrect.

    Would the Speaker be able to provide the House with clarification of this important issue?

    The Speaker: The Chair will look into the matter and come back to the House, I hope very shortly, with the facts and figures that we relied on in making the ruling which I believe was amply supported by the documentary evidence that was tabled in the House and will refer the hon. member to it in due course.

[Hansard – Page 3827]

Points of Order

Firearms Program--Speaker's Ruling

    The Speaker: Before proceeding with debate, I wish to answer the question raised earlier by the hon. member for Yorkton--Melville in respect of the figures used by the Speaker in his ruling on the matter of the gun registry earlier this week.

    First I would point out that the estimates of the Department of Justice for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2003, indicated that there were two votes, one for operating expenditures and one for grants and contributions: operating expenditures, $325,464,000, and grants and contributions, $398,715,000.

    Tabled with the estimates were part III of the estimates, the “Report on Plans and Priorities” of the Department of Justice. Within that report, the plans, priorities and strategic outcomes listed in section III on page 11 indicate that planned spending for the firearms control program was $113.5 million.

    If the figure that is stated in the part IIIs is not the correct figure, that in fact the amount contained in the main estimates was less than $113.5 million, there is no way that the Speaker could be aware of the fact that it was not so contained. We rely on the documents that are tabled in this House.

    As hon. members know, the Auditor General of Canada has made comments about transparency in respect of figures used by this particular department in relation to this particular program. If there is a discrepancy between the figures that I have quoted and what the department says was in fact intended to be included in the main estimates and what was intended to be in the supplementary estimates, I can only suggest that the matter be resolved in the committee.

    I point out the following in regard to the standing committees of the House, and I will be selective in my quote from Standing Order 108, which states in part that:

 

    The standing committees...shall, in addition to the powers granted to them pursuant to section (1) of this Standing Order...be empowered to study and report on all matters relating to the mandate, management and operation of the department or departments of government which are assigned to them from time to time by the House. In general, the committees shall be severally empowered to review and report on...the immediate, medium and long-term expenditure plans and the effectiveness of implementation of same by the department;...[and] other matters, relating to the mandate, management, organization or operation of the department, as the committee deems fit.

    So I would suggest to the hon. member that if the statements that he has obtained or has seen quoted in the media indicate there is a discrepancy in the figures upon which the Speaker is relying in giving his ruling based on the documents that have been tabled in the House and what the actual figures may or may not be, and he has some justification for thinking that, I think, in light of the statements made and in light of the comments of the Auditor General, I would suggest he take the matter up with the committee at the earliest opportunity.