37th PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION  

EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 112

[Pages 7194-96]

Thursday, November 8, 2001

ADJOURNMENT PROCEEDINGS

[Adjournment Debate]

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A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

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[English]

Gun Control

Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton--Melville, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, in the House on June 4 the Minister of Justice failed to answer my question about the four amnesties she had declared with respect to the 1995 banning of thousands of short barrelled .25 calibre and .32 calibre handguns, all legally owned and registered, I should remind the House.

A little background information is necessary to understand this issue and that the passing of these amnesties is actually contrary to the government's stated objectives of its firearms program.  On April 12, 1994, the then justice minister was quoted in a number of newspapers across the country. He said: I came to Ottawa in November of last year with a firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers--

Six months later, he had changed his public tune but not his personal beliefs. In 1995 he used time allocation to ram his draconian bill through parliament requiring the licensing of all law-abiding firearms owners, the registration of all legally owned guns and the banning of 555,000 legal owned, properly registered handguns. The justice minister offered no statistical evidence to support the ban. In fact the statistical evidence showed that these registered handguns were no threat to public safety while they were in the hands of their registered owners.

To justify his decision to ban and eventually confiscate legally owned private property without any compensation, the justice minister simply declared these registered handguns as scary Saturday night specials. Rather than rely on any statistical evidence, on February 16, 1995, the justice minister made his emotional argument in this House. Again I will quote: These handguns are by their design and characteristics suitable for concealment, inexpensive to buy, easy to trade in the underground and not appropriate for target shooting because of their lack of accuracy.

The justice minister's lack of candor was duly noted by tens of thousands of front line police officers and RCMP who were still carrying the four inch barrelled .38 calibre specials that were soon to become prohibited with the passage of Bill C-68. In the legislation the justice minister tried to ban the sale of these registered handguns from the day he introduced the bill on February 14, 1995. He said that anyone buying a short barrelled .25 calibre or .32 calibre handgun after that date would have it seized by the police without compensation.

This move telegraphed the government's true intentions about what registration really means. People should register their guns and some day the government will declare them dangerous and then it will confiscate them without compensation, just like it did with the Saturday night specials people registered. Remember?

Now every responsible firearms owner remember. The justice minister ordered his bureaucrats to set the first deadline for confiscating thousands of legally owned firearms. We must remember that these are properly registered short barrelled handguns from dealers' inventories and from individuals cleared by the police to buy these firearms.

As every deadline approached, the government lost its courage and passed an amnesty. It has had four amnesties to date. With every amnesty passed by the government it is admitting that these so-called Saturday night specials are not dangerous at all when in the hands of a person licensed by the government and approved by the police to own them.

Even the 555,000 legally owned registered handguns banned in 1995 were left in the hands of their law-abiding owners through a grandfathering clause, not to be confiscated until the current owner dies. Grandfathering proved that once again the government did not consider these handguns dangerous at all when safely in the hands of their law-abiding owners.

The hypocrisy of all this is disgusting and that is why I asked the justice minister, instead of proclaiming amnesty after amnesty, why she does not admit that the government was wrong to ban these registered firearms in the first place.

Mr. Lynn Myers (Parliamentary Secretary to the Solicitor General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am very proud of the fact that our government continues to listen to the concerns of firearm dealers and owners. They have important points to make and we are very attuned to what they are saying. That is why an amnesty is currently in place for prohibited handguns and unregistered restricted firearms until December 31, 2001.

The amnesty allows individuals who purchased prohibited, that is short barrelled .25 calibre or .32 calibre, handguns after the intended prohibition was announced in February 1995, and dealers who were left with inventory, to take appropriate action as required. The amnesty also protects individuals who may have come into possession of an unregistered restricted firearm, often through an estate, allowing them the opportunity to either register or dispose of it without fear or repercussion.

Responding to concerns from the public and the policing community, the government announced the prohibition of these handguns in February 1995. Incidentally, the police were at the justice committee last night and both the chiefs of police and the Canadian Association of Police again reaffirmed their strong views that this was appropriate and good legislation, and I think the record should reflect that.

However, all individuals who had registered or who had applied to register a prohibited handgun at that time were grandfathered and can continue to use their firearm with the appropriate authorization.

 While the prohibition of these easily concealed firearms is in the interest of public safety and security, the government also recognizes the difficult situation of businesses that were caught with large inventories of short barrelled .25 calibre or .32 calibre handguns on February 14, 1995. This situation is addressed in amendments proposed in Bill C-15, which would grandfather these inventories, and was also addressed last year in Bill C-17.

Grandfathering these inventories would mean that businesses could dispose of the prohibited handguns by selling them to individuals who are grandfathered to possess such handguns and licensed to acquire them. This would help businesses and would not affect public safety as only licensed individuals could acquire them.

Another proposed amendment would change the grandfathering date for prohibited handguns to December 1, 1998, from February 14, 1995, so that correctly licensed individuals who lawfully acquired and registered a handgun while it was still restricted, that is between February 14, 1995 and December 1, 1998, can keep it.

Public safety would be maintained with the proposed changes because only those who were already in legal possession of these handguns since December 1, 1998, and who are properly trained and licensed to use prohibited handguns would be able to keep them. Ownership of prohibited handguns would continue to be limited to a very small number of individuals with grandfathered privileges.

Given the government's resolve to address these issues through Bill C-15B, the amnesty was recently extended until the end of this year to continue to protect both dealer inventories and individuals in possession of prohibited handguns until parliament completes its consideration of Bill C-15. I think that represents the values of Canadians and the values of this parliament.

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Mr. Garry Breitkreuz: Mr. Speaker, the government has its spin but let us look at the facts. The law has required handguns to be registered since 1934 yet the government has been unable to present a shred of evidence that registration of these firearms has helped prevent or solve one crime.

Last week's Statistics Canada report “Homicides in Canada 2000” shows that the government's 67 year registration of handguns project has been a complete failure. Of the 183 firearm murderers last year, 58% were committed with handguns. Since 1990 the use of handguns and firearms in homicides has doubled from 30% to 60%. Between 1997 and 2000, 69% of the handguns recovered from firearms homicides were not registered.

Let us scrap Bill C-68 and instead enlist the support of the provinces, the territories and responsible firearms owners and draft a workable gun control program. Nearly $700 million has been wasted on Bill C-68.

Mr. Lynn Myers: Mr. Speaker, if we look at the security measures that are in place and the safety for communities, small towns, villages, cities and rural areas across Canada, it is implicit and inherent that our society is much safer as a result of gun control. This is not about confiscating guns. I resent the implication and the mythology that is portrayed by using that statement because it is incorrect. It is an urban and a rural myth.

What this is about is carving out values for Canada, values that are dependent on the safety and security for each and every one of us, and especially for young people, and about making sure our communities are safe and secure. I am not alone in saying this. As I said previously, the police association and the chiefs of police are unanimous in saying that this is a wise move. This is what Canada is all about.

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